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May 04, 2005

Episode 12 Revealed!

I notice on the BBC website they've updated the data we have for episode 12.

Now do I give a spoiler, or hint cryptically and infuriate everyone by not linking? Hmmmmmm... well, for readers of this blog it shouldn't be too difficult to work it out. The writing's on the wall for this one... or should that be the TARDIS? (Yeah, that's opaque enough to keep them going for a while, I fancy.)

I also notice that Geocomtex has its own website. That's another nice touch... no substance to it though. And the jokes are a little thin.

Has anyone else been watching the Who Spy postcards? I notice the sequence 23-7-801 is a familiar repeated meme. I wonder what significance THAT has.

So many questions, so few answers... I guess we'll find out. I'll meet you on Saturday for The Long Game.


I'm loving the meta-text that is being produced on these "fake" websites. It's a great idea and very nicely handled. The Geocomtex site isn't very good though, is it?

It's actually 23, 6, 801, see my posting in "Who is afraid" thread.

That number sequence also turns up in the Who is Doctor Who? and GeoComTex websites as well

Here's wild speculation for you :)

Maybe it is a clue to the anoraks, i read it as season 23, episode 6, 801 seconds (13:21) in.

I investigated this.

Season twenty three is Trial of a Timelord which does have an episode 6 (part two of timelash) at timeframe 13:21 Sil is talking to crozier about using the Doctor as a body for Kiv! The doctor is also not himself during this (admittidltly not unusual for the 6th) it did sebd a shiver down my spine (Wolf in sheeps clothing anyone?) but the 801 is precise and doesnt match with any one phrase or sentance. However there is significance if you see it.

Maybe its book 23 chapter 6 page 801 (big book :()

Or story 23 (no episode 6 in the ark though :()

Perhaps RTD likes winding up nerds!

Could the 23 be as in November 23rd? It's certainly a significant date for the series.

Can't immediately think of anything that makes sense for the rest though, but the 801 might turn out to be something really cryptic which involves adding ten to eight or something.

Very interesting...

I just Googled and discovered that 801 is the telephone area code for Utah. Coincidence?


The web design on these fake sites is appalling. They spent millions on the series - you'd think they could afford a decent desinger.

Well, the Conspiracy website looks just like a nutter site would in the real world. Geocomtex, on the other hand, should have a more professional experience. After all, the company pilfered broadband from the little green men, so it should be a very large company in the present already.
UNIT's website looked unrealistic, but that's what it looked like on the show. And it was kind of fun to pretend to launch a missile at Downing Street 10.

Some more pointless trivia, surrounding that elusive number sequence 23 6 801.

Room 801 is (or was) the MoD's Metropole Building, an old prestigious hotel near to MoD Main Building, reports of unexplained fast moving radar "blips" were collated from military air traffic controllers at major RAF bases. However, quite bizarrely, Room 801 lives on in a song by Dorset Progressive Rockers Galahad who also named their website after the top secret UFO research office in Whitehall!

Bizarrely, Joss Whedon was born on 23/6

Not sure if it's any significance at all, but the numerological equivalent of 236801 is 2.

I think the whole number sequence thing is probably a production office "in joke" as it doesn't feature hardly at all (as far as I can see) in this series. But it has been fun...

Having finished my exams and having nothing better to do....

I've also looked into the number thing, and had a brainwave (at 3.23, in the morning no less...) I think its a bad wolf referance....

that being the numbers 23.6.801, which have appeared in rose, fathers day and empty child as far as I know.....

What got me was that in fathers day they appear on the psalm board

and seeing that for number crunching nothing beats a bible....

(also saw this at outpost gallifary)

BinaryJustin: How far ahead did Russell plot his storylines? I mean, did he stop at the final episode of Series One or were all the writers of Series One aware of impending plotlines within Series Two? p.s. Could you give any clue as to what the numbers 23, 6, 801 mean?
Rob Shearman: No idea about the numbers at all. I didn't know the significance of Bad Wolf either until I asked Russell bluntly - he just enjoys threading stuff like that in! The series Bible we were sent before Xmas 2003 gave extremely vague story breakdowns of the first season - the majority of which are now very out of date! The concept of a second season was something we didn't want to talk about for fear of jinxing it!...

ok I am that bored....

First off, book 23, Isaiah. I couldnt use 801 in chapter 6, not enough words but 23/2 =11.5 so I looked at chapter 11 out of intrest, verse 6 this is what I was greeted with... "The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. "

Wolf in sheeps clothing, an evil the doctor knows but thinks is incapable of harm (or alternativally dead?) If the slitheren doesnt turn out to be the revalation in boom town (unlikly granted) this could have significance

the number 801 is also relevent, I came accross a site claiming that chapter 801 was lamentations, 4 and saying this was linked with the utah telephone line, which does in fact work with dalek, which took place I believe in Utah, and there is a link on the geometrix site, look for the telephone number of van stattons company helpdesk


what strikes me is verse 6 reads "6 For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed on her."

is the child who leads mentioned in isaiah rose?
is sodom meant to be the time war?


The only explicit references to any letters of the Greek alphabet in the surface text of Scripture are from the verses in which God declares I am Alpha and Omega. This gives rise to what is without question one of the greatest identities to emerge from the intrinsic alphanumeric structure of the Greek language. The value is:

Alpha + Omega

= 801

(this stems from the ancient greek and jewih languages being numerical in nature, and what clumps of words/numbers mean)

is omega bad wolf?
or more likly is it taken as a referance to the time war? the begining and end of time?

furthurmore.... thats probably what is meant as the 'bad wolf scenario' dont ya think?

also, psalm 23 is the lord is my shepard, I'll presume you can figure out for yourself how that works with a wolf in sheeps clothing, and fits quite nicely with the quote from Isaiah.

that probably has the most relavance considering that it was on a psalm board after all...

finally does anyone know what the 801st word of the bible is? my moneys on adam....

Do I win a prize?!

Some fascinating stuff there; I particularly like the Alpha + Omega = 801 relation. I wonder how deep into this kind of thing RTD dug whilst doing research for The Second Coming? Omega might be a couple of years late for his traditional anniversary appearance, though.

This months DWM cheekily discounts some of the speculation, since they've had access to most of the script, and rule out Fenric and the Toymaker as I recall. The way they're saying it's not specific 'classic' villains suggests it might be another one, though. Unless there's a leak in the next eleven days, this could be the last great secret of the season; except for exactly how many of the TARDIS crew survive the finale. Looks like an eventful couple of episodes.

Sorry to spoil the fun, but the 801st word in the bible is "was".

My personal theory:

Some could regard this wild speculation as spoilerish but in that case why read this topic :P anyhoo


The Parting of the Ways - interesting that. We know Rose stays with the doc so thats not it. It could be regeneration but that doesnt seem quite right. Hmmm parting what could that mean. Maybe something literally becames parted. One person or thing becoming 2.

RTD has said he would love to bring someone back, but it would have to be done "right". Maybe by hinting throught the entire series at his return?

RTD has also mentioned Dalek graffiti messages to the Doc. Maybe these arnt as hiiden as we imagine. Several of the bad wolf messages have been in graffiti and the daleks could manipulate time to place messages. They have worked with this person in the past and have a vested interest in him not returning. They were the last ones to see him before he was executed.

Two theories. Either the Doctor or the TARDIS is involved but NOT as the Bad Wolf but as the "Sheeps Clothing" the Badwolf inhabits either the doctor or TARDIS and will become "parted" in episode 13.

The person imprinted their memorys within the doctor in an unsucessful attempt to steal his remaining regenerations. He has lurked in the dark corners since, helping the doctor make difficult decisions which seem slightly out of character (abandoning rose to the dalek, trying to kill it, much more vehemance towards certain companions etc)

This person has also "inhabited" other beings in the past.

I give you the return of The Master. After all what is Holmes without his Moriaty and who better to return then a character most recently seen (in 1996?) as the doctors enemy.

I'll get me coat.......

Cool theory, and an interesting tie-in to the TV movie.
Of course, that does mean we have to start trying to make sense of the TVM. eg. did the Daleks deliberately botch the Master's execution, and the odd relocation of the Master's last resting place from the now-deceased Gallifrey. I'm not going near the simultaneous worldwide midnight at the climax, though. :)

Might also explain his judge-jury-executioner attitude towards Cassandra, and his new-found predilection for dressing in black. :)

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